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in 1969 I was either preparing for going

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to graduate school or in graduate school

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the Apollo program affected me in that

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it added to an already existing need

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that I felt personally that I needed to

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get as much education as I possibly

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could the way that the Apollo program

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affected me is that I was in awe of the

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people that were involved in the moon

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landing and I could see that the

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activity surrounding that had required

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an awful lot of expertise and competence

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dedication a lot of courage and and and

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capability I just realized that in order

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to be a part of something like that and

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I didn't anticipate that I ever would

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but if I ever did want to be a part of

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something like that I would have to have

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as much education that possibly could

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kid and so being from from the Detroit

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which had just been rioting and where we

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had been in these discussions already

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about the need for education that that

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feeling was there but but observing the

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moon landing enhanced it within me

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considerably that that there was an

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awful lot of technical competence that

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the moon landing I probably indirectly

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inspired me to continue on the study I

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there were other things that had

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inspired me prior to to the moon landing

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the moon landing sort of added to

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something I thought was a a great need

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I felt that particularly as a black man

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in the United States there was a deficit

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in technical people who were performing

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technically scientifically that and I

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felt that I I thought I had a

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responsibility since I felt I did have

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the capacity to to do science I had a

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responsibility to do as far as I could

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the perspective of both

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african-americans was not so much you

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know our violent or we nonviolent that

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wasn't the issue the issue was more or

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less trying to gain a modicum of respect

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trying to get somewhere is in terms of

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Education in terms of income in terms of

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just being able to survive a violence

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was not something I'm certain it wasn't

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aligned with but it was not something

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that was was totally out out of the

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picture because violence we felt was a

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part of the scene

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generally anyway I mean it was violence

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coming from all directions either from

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just from the general social fabric

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where people were generally felt

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violently oppressed in terms of not

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being able to survive and then there was

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a whole self-defense aspect of should I

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defend myself or not so violence was

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more or less in a moment into the fabric

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of the society as a as a philosophy as a

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sort of as a mechanism of moving ahead

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the nonviolent philosophy of Martin

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Luther King was of course extremely

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correct I mean it was it was a one way

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of suffering without responding and I

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think that sort of awakened the United

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States conscious on the other hand the

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self-defense teachings of people like

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Malcolm X at the time was was something

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that was was being taught to or spoken

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to American black Americans in terms of

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maintaining their manhood or standing up

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for what they believed in but not going

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out and doing things but more or less

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protecting themselves so and you know

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then as a country we as a country

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believe in self-defense and so that that

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kind of thinking

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I thought was was not even germane to

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the old subject other than we all want

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the country to be held together no one

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believes we don't want anti Archy we

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don't want people to go around being

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violent but I thought the arguments of

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the discussion got lost in the

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nonviolent versus Ryan the real

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discussion was human rights versus

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suffering and that sort of thing those

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that's where the arguments should have

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been and not necessarily nonviolent

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versus violent so I thought I think that

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that was kind of a moot moot point so I

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never did address the issue of violence

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on the one hand it was quite frightening

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I felt a little bit insulated being a

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student in 1969 at Rutgers was at times

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of somewhat disturbing it's not quite

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frightening but some were disturbing but

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the atmosphere in 1969 whether when you

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know much of the protestations against

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the war were really becoming really

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quite pronounced my perspective was that

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my colleagues I could feel some of the

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fear some of the sort of not knowing

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what the future was was going to be like

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among some of these colleagues I could

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feel some of that I I cared about some

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of these people and so I could feel I

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can empathize with with them through

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them I had a certain amount of fear

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about the future whether or not there

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was going to be a future for me I

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thought I felt fairly secure as long as

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I was able to to succeed in my studies

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but as far as my compatriots was

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concerned they were in and out some of

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them were involved in the protests the

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campus protest in some cases they

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weren't probably studying their

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cumulative exams which prepares them for

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their degree which qualifies them for

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the degree and and in some cases not

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passing their exams on time there was so

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there was a certain amount of doubt with

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respect to these fellows in terms of on

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the one hand whether they were going to

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be around long enough to to complete

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their their degrees and because of the

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draft they were going to be able to

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successfully pass their coursework

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because they were involved in in protest

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and so on being on in graduate school we

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didn't see as much of that although we

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did see quite a bit of it in my office

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there were students that came through

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but it wasn't as heavy heavily

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concentrated in a graduate offices it

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would have been in an undergraduate

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office

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but there was definitely an air of of

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fear and uncertainty many of the

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students were subject to the draft

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I myself was insulated from that I had

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already served my time in the military

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and so I could concentrate pretty much

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on on my studies but there were some

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fellows who were subject to the draft

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and who were in the lottery and who who

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needed to to concentrate on their

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studies on the one hand but on the other

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hand who were there when they were

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opposed to the war although there were

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some that were not opposed to the war

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those that were posed in the war felt

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that they had to express that opposition

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and they were uncertain about their

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futures because of the possibility of

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being or going away to the military and

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on the one hand also uncertain about

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their futures from the standpoint of not

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putting enough time into their studies

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and preparing for the necessary

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qualifying exams and so there was a

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considerable amount of apprehension and

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uncertainty although this was a graduate

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school and it wasn't as concentrated in

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our area as it was in the undergraduate

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part of the university although the

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whole campus was generally embroiled in

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without the Apollo program we would not

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have be able to to do the routine

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science that were capable of doing today

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and in in microgravity we can the

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mission that I was mission scientists

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for for example and not just that when

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you SMP the USML all of them have have

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done routine science they have been able

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to launch routinely grow crystals to

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grow grow protein crystals that were

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they gave much better resolution than

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the the crystals that are currently

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grown on the ground some of them that

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not all of them but some of them a great

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percentage of them gain much better

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resolution which allows a drug design a

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pharmaceutical drug design and a much

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higher percentage of drugs can be

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produced crystal growth of

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semiconductors where the defect

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densities you know we're trying to

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miniaturize these we're talking about

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miniature ation minute miniaturization

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of all of these components electronic

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components and photonic components and

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and and and and computers and so on we'd

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like to minimize the amount of defects

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well on the ground we do processing your

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defect densities are fairly high and

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crystal growth if you can now we know

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that certain fluid flows and and those

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types of convective effects that take

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place on the ground are generally absent

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in microgravity when we come to when he

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said microgravity we're talking about

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one millionth of the gravity on that we

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experience here on the ground we have

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these very small flows and we can

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minimize on the minimizer your defect

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densities and so we're talk about

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miniaturization then that says that most

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of our material is going to be very good

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for electronics and photonic

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applications and so without the Apollo

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program without the ability to launch

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routinely we would not have these data

220
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points we would not have these or this

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information combustion we know how

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combustion works now much better than we

223
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ever did we've seen

224
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how things like surface tension driven

225
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convection works that is without the

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influence of buoyancy forces we've seen

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how many things work in microgravity

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environment as a result of being able to

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to leave the the confines of this

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gravitational field that we're in and so

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the Apollo program was extremely

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important and giving us his launch

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capability and then to permit us to do

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I would say Justin

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believable accomplishment I feel that it

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was true then and it's sure not to care

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the dedication and the commitment the

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just the courage that it took to not

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just the guy people that flew with the

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people who did the calculations and said

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that these numbers have to work but

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we're going to lose all these people

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we're gonna lose all these equipment and